Attempting "Pure Hero+Hench"

Attempting "Pure Hero+Hench"
Ever been playing with Heroes and Henchies and feel like you're not doing squat? Ever notice how the right combination of them can make all the difference in the world? Are Heroes and Henchies really powerful enough to win the entire game? That's what I'm planning to find out. Only.... I'm taking it a step further. I don't get to help. The hired help must do all the heavy lifting. What's this mean? I'm giving myself the following rules: Don't: <*> Group with other humans. <*> Equip any skill on my bar except resurrection ones. <*> Use any max damage weapons, unless I'm no where near the req. Do: <*> Flag <*> Pull <*> Survive <*> Do as many side quests as possible. <*> Get mission bonus/masters if possible. <*> Get as far on Survivor track as possible. So, I've rolled up a lovely Mesmer named Random Manipulator in Factions, and will see how things go. I plan to chronicle my exploits here, (unless no one cares). Comments and ideas welcome!

Early Shing Jea Island: Traveled with Wa/El/Mo henchies, and had no real problems clearing all the quests related to sampling all the different secondary professions. Accidently hit Rit for secondary, when I had planned for Monk, but no worries, I've got 4 skills on my bar for now (Rez Sig, Flesh of my Flesh, Restoration, and Lively was Naomi) I've settled on the following weapon sets: 1) Rose Focus and Starter Wand 2) Rose Focus and a green Spear I had around (forget which) 3) a 4-6 +11%/enc flatbow that dropped for me. The Rose is mainly there because it's just cool looking, and hey, can make for some powerful rezzing. I've grown to disfavor the spear, because the animation for the fem mez throwing it is just way too dorky. The flatbow is my weapon of choice most of the time. Mission: Minister Cho's Estate Actually had a spot of trouble here, since the Monk got into DP trouble pretty fast, and was later taking the war with her. :( Was able to make it through the mission with master's though, the final battle just took a good long time. Getting to Seitung: Bought AL30 armor in Ran Musu. For the Lost Treasure attr quest, I switched to taking the Rt/Ra/Mo henchies, since the NPC tanks and kills for me. Got through that quest with no issue at all. Then for the primaries after that, I forgot to change henchies up, and was pleasently surprised at how well the Ra/Rt/Mo worked out, so I kept them all the way to Seitung Harbor, never having a worry about progress, even if killing some groups took a while. Now in Seitung, where I bought some AL45 armor, and am preparing for more adventures next time.

I think it is a unique idea - especially for someone, such as yourself, who has tackled most of the challenges in the game (at least in PvE). As we discussed in-game, there are certainly certain elements that can't be completed with hench/heros (such as Augury Rock and Tihark Orchard), but it seems possible to complete every element which you aren't forced to complete solo. It also changes the strategy significantly, as your group has to be a more self sufficient. I really like the idea from the perspective that the builds you use (presuming you log the builds and special tactics, if any) could then be used for ANY character of ANY profession. One question I had was whether you permit yourself to (a) manually target heros/hench on specific targets, or (b) manually trigger any of the hero skills/attacks. Telling a hero what skill to use (say, an interrupt of Meteor Shower or an enemy rez) is far different from sitting back and hoping that they notice that they need to take action. Regardless, thanks for chronicling your adventures, as I look forward to seeing how you progress and what challenges prove the most challenging to your progression. :D

I too look forward to your chronicles. As I am predominantly a H&H player (not by choice I'm afraid though). Keep us informed, even if it is only Jet and myself that read your posts :P

Very interesting idea. Now if you'd go through the game naked, that'd really be something! :oops:

One question I had was whether you permit yourself to (a) manually target heros/hench on specific targets, or (b) manually trigger any of the hero skills/attacks. Telling a hero what skill to use (say, an interrupt of Meteor Shower or an enemy rez) is far different from sitting back and hoping that they notice that they need to take action. My intent is to only use flags and called targets. Micromanaging the heroes seems almost like just playing yourself. And yes, there will be exceptions for things that I absolutely cannot make the heroes do, like Tihark and Doppelganger. How annoying. Seitung to Zen Daijun After picking up some fresh 45AL armor, headed out into the bluffs. Took W/E/R/Rt/Mo hench. Quickly recruited Yorrt to fight beside me, and then cleared out the tower. Decided it was time to let Yortt die, so took him to see his dead, then did the club thing. Had a close call when I decided to run past a pack of Sensali, instead of fighting them. Got crippled and then lagged, and got down to 1 HP before they broke off. *whew* In the Lagoon, the siege in the town was no big deal. Just take out the melee guys first. I cracked up at watching a pack of 4 enemy rits all drop the same spirit.... Kept the 4 NPCs around to mop up the area quests. Captured Son was just a matter of careful pulling. The Rit boss out on an island was really nasty, esp when the 2nd group joined the fray. Several Henchies died in the process..... When they buffed Spirit Rift for players, they didn't take into account what it does in the hands of mobs.... ouchie.

there will be exceptions for things that I absolutely cannot make the heroes do, like Tihark and Doppelganger. Well you won't have to worry about those for some time as you are still running through Factions -- even then, those missions are at least four beyond the starting point for non-native characters in Tyria and Elona. As for the Naga Ritualist Boss (Tin Dao Kaineng), over the last year I have had several potential survivalists brutally impaled on hiss (or is it hearse) spirit rift -- best approaches, if at all possible, are to either interrupt them before being spiked down into the earth or quickly running away. The Ritualist Boss (Afflicted Yijo) in the upcoming Zen Daijun mission is just as deadly with his spirit rift and spirit burn. Having taken many characters through that part of Factions (as it is or at least was one of the fastest methods to reach survivor -- not counting those methods where you essentially farm your way there and accomplish next to nothing), the two Ritualists are probably the deadliest of threats on the Shing Jea Island. However, even the weakest of prey can turn deadly if you (or heroes, henchmen & minions) rush into battle. I wish you luck ... ... one question though, based on your 'rules' at the outset I am not sure how you are going to tackle the Vizunah Square mission as there may (and probably will be) humans on the other team.

... one question though, based on your 'rules' at the outset I am not sure how you are going to tackle the Vizunah Square mission as there may (and probably will be) humans on the other team. Whatever happens on the other side is all within the spirit of the objective, which is to show that you can get through with nothing. I would actually prefer to have all hench on other side, since it tends to be more reliable. :D Mission: Zen Daijun Took Wa/Ra/El/Rt/Mo hench. Zunraa died early, and didn't replace him since he tended to Leeroy a lot it seemed. Also, removing the miasma when I next use a skill is really, really, useless with my skillbar. Overall, not a problem. Pulled mobs out of the miasma, and then flagged everyone across and then waited to heal up. Rit and Ran boss were a touch troublesome, but nothing special needed there. I screwed around early on, looking for paths around the haze zones (to no avail), so only got Expert, not Masters. I can come back w/ heroes and get it Masters w/ no troubles. Zen Daijun to Kaineng City... and beyond! Decided to skip the attr pt quest for now for 2 reasons: 1) I can get to KC without it, and 2) exactly how it 15 attr points gonna help me? Arriving in Kaineng Docks, stripped of my escorts, was damn scary. Good thing there were no baddies about. Decided to run straight to KC, for all the goodies that were to be had there. Got cocky on flagging my heroes into the fray at the one place that spawns afflicted, and became the victim of a couple lucky shots and died. :x :cry: :oops: And I think this is the first time I've ever died making that run. *pout* Kaineng City... Max Armor! Quests Galore! Access to other areas (including Heroes!!!) yeah! Got my armor (details later) and a pack of quests. Brief visit to EotN Then headed to EotN for Vekk, Ogden, and Gwen. The transition cavern was easy... just flag the pack ahead whenever you saw red dots. Did the hero tutorial in Boreal w/ Vekk and Ogden... this flagging thing might turn out handy. I'll have to see if I can remember to use it. Walking to the Eye, took Vekk (Std SF Fire build) and Odgen (General Blessed Light Healer), Mhenlo, Lina, Cynn, Devona, Zho. The battles were trivial, if a bit slow, but got to the eye and unlocked Gwen. btw, I REALLY hate how EotN clogs up your quest log with FOUR primary quest sections..... and quests that cannot be abandoned... grr.... Gwen likely wasn't worth it. Visit to Elona Back to KC, packed up Vekk, Ogden, Devona, Kai, Vhang, Gai, and Tai to take me to Elona. The fight going over was rough, since heroes are so stupid about standing in meteor shower and firestorm.... esp in narrow staircases.... Restarted this... this time w/ Gwen instead of Vhang, (signet smiter/interrupter), and vekk going a flavor of MM. It was slow hauling, but the combo of interrupts and disposable shock troops saved the day. Got to Kamadan, and yeah! more heroes! Koss, Mel, Dunk, and Tahl are a given. Decided to grab Jin, since I already had Vekk for ele games. Started leveling up Koss (Sword), Dunk(BL healer), and Tahl(Sig Smiter) along the way to Jin. Got up to the start of "Land of Heroes", and decided to call it a night. But first, I headed to the GH to rune up. Runes were easy.... Maj Vig and 4xVitae... For insignias, I decided to go 5xArtificer's... which gives me +3AL per signet. Let's see... rez sig, sunspear sig, death pact sig is three... then I got three other rezzes... and yes! two signets of capture! Giving me +15AL. Grr... Cap sigs are PvE only skills, so only three of sunspear sig and cap sigs can be used.

Good reading Rod. :)

Finishing Istan, and cleanup Quest A Time for Heroes was only rough until I busted out Vekk as MM... then it was a cakewalk. Also took Dunk the healer, and Tahl the Smiter. Rest of Istan was just walking. Took same trio plus Orion and Alesia to fetch Olias. Pretty easy going. Got Olias all runed up, and then went back to Shing Jea to clean up the remaining quests with Dunk, Jin, and Olias. I gotta say, having a Barrager at any level tied with a proper MM makes a world of difference in this area. Olias at L15 makes a better MM than Vekk at L20... Had quests all over the island left, including several most people likely don't even know about, and wasn't phased by any of them, including the attr pt quest, where I took an ele and monk hench along. Was just me, Dunk, and Olias killing naga for a quest, and to get 3 pelts for later quest. What next? So now I actually have to decide what direction to go next. Namely, which of the four chapters to pursue. Whichever way, I'll likely start with the Kaineng area quests as an exercise in leveling heroes, but otherwise I'm not sure. Factions is obvious because I started there. NightFall is attractive for the added heroes along the way, making the other chapters even easier. EotN might be even faster to get a few heroes, but I think I'd prefer to have some other heroes along first. I don't see much reason to do Proph now. I think I'm leaning towards NF.

Kaineng Quests Cleared out a large number of the quests in Waijun, which is predominately a matter of running around a lot, since I had "Seek out Master Whatever his name is" up, so the Am Fah didn't attack me. The quests let me level up most of my heroes. Generally ran with Dunk, Jin, Koss, and then the Monk, Rit, and two Ele henchies. Then made a single trip to the underworld to clear out like five quests, including getting Zenmai and opening up Vizunah Square. Here, I swapped out Koss for Olias, who is forever in Minion Mode. Mission: Consulate Docks Since I decided to start the rest of the journey in Nightfall, mainly to open up more heroes, I went to the Docks. Dunk was required, so took him, Jin, and Olias with me, along with a Monk, Para, and both Eles. Got masters with no issues at all. Kourna Sporting Zenmai (Crit Barrage), Jin (Barrage+Command), and Olias (MM) with 2xMonk,Para, & Cynn, was able to clear out many of the quests around the command post. When heroes were required, I made substitutions as I thought best maintained the balance I had before. All frightfully easy. Stopped off in the bluffs to get Jin and Zenmai some L12 lions. Build Notes Zenmai: critical eye, way of the Mssssaster, {barrage}, distracting shot, savage shot, revive animal, charm animal, rez sig. Jin: {barrage}, crossfire, distracting shot, savage shot, go for the eyes, never surrender, charm animal, signet of return Olias: animate bone minions, animate shambling horror, blood of the master, death nova, signet of lost souls, {icy veins}, putrid bile, taste of death

Sounds like you are able to steamroll pretty well in the areas you have been to so far. As for directions to go, I personally think that Nightfall is the safest route for getting to Legendary Survivor. While Prophecies is relatively predictable, the random boss spawns do make things far less certain and can make it harder to get hero build configurations "just right." Factions is a bit more predictable on the boss front, but the pops in certain areas are just nasty (Oni anyone?). In NF I find that I can plow through all of the areas up to the Vortex without much fear of death. The primary exceptions are the Searing Flames boss (who is easily avoided) and The Drought (who can't be beat with minions, but is certainly susceptible to interruption).

I personally think that Nightfall is the safest route for getting to Legendary Survivor. Except that, as noted above, I had a stupid death in the run from Marketplace to Kaineng Center. More Kourna Quests I've been doing all the quests in Kourna, and man there are a ton of them. None of them are that difficult with a balanced team, like what I've described above. You just gotta manage the aggro such that you're only fighting one group at a time. Thinking back to the quests that previously gave me frustration, the only one in this area that comes to mind is the herding cows one, where all you have to do is first go backwards through the route, clearing out everyone, and then walk a bit ahead of the herd, to intercept any pops. Mission: Venta Cemetary The two key things here are to take a lot of firepower of different forms, and to pull the roaming patrols so that you only fight one group at a time. Do that, and you shouldn't have any issues. I didn't. Don't forget you get 8 monks joining your party right off... Mission: Kodunar Crossroads A nice, balanced team, with an MM is the key here. There are lots of patrols with a long walking range, so it helps to go slightly out of your way to kill each one separately the first time you see them. Then, the only other real benefit is when you hit the final fort, to pull out the front half of the fort first, recover, and then charge the boss group. btw, I've decided to go the Margrid route.

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