The Ovine DoA Challenge
a.k.a. "Let's put our collective heads together and crack this tough nut once and for all." This is something I've been toying with for a while now, but don't have the time to do it alone and am not that well-versed in all the classes. Basically, the idea behind this is to get all of us involved in putting together a team that can take on DoA. That doesn't use gimmicks (i.e. UB) or exploits the AI (i.e. bonding one tank to oblivion and trapping foes behind a corner). Yes, it is possible. And in a reasonable time frame too. The reason is that the area was designed to specifically counter what we normally play with and encourages more innovative play. I think the key lies in using the non-core professions to their maximum potential. The rules for this challenge (or project, or undertaking) are simple: 1) No gimmicky builds. 2) The team has to contain the non-core professions. It doesn't have to include them all, but at least two would be nice. 3) As much as possible, stay away from the Holy Trinity. 4) It must be possible for every class to find a meaningful place on the team. 5) Each toon should make maximum use of both primary and secondary professions, if necessary. For starters, I think taking on the City of Torc'qua would be a good testing ground. The Margonites are generally less nasty then the other foes in there. The wiki page has the info regarding what skills we'd be up against. They are heavy on the hexes, and energy denial. So let's start building and remove our reliance on UB and gimicks to finish this nasty area. :D A little warning: I'm going to be playing the Devil's Advocate a lot. Just so you know. :twisted:

4) It must be possible for every class to find a meaningful place on the team.

5? A maximum of three non-primary class skills/spells/signets on the skill bar.

My thoughts: -An assasin (or two?) with shadow steps and shadow form to run up and tank? -A Rit to provide protection and healing with restoration and communing spirits and spells. -A Derv to provide secondary tanking ability and AoE physical damage -Paragon to buff the party with chants and shouts and as a damage dealer -Elementalists and Monks are always pretty important to provide elemental damage and enough healing Just some general ideas................I do think this is possible, and would be pretty fun.

I updated the rules list to include those suggested by Rod and Daerious (changed the latter a bit since there's no need to limit the number of skills from either profession).

Sheep could attest to a Paragon healing build that I have used in the past. It certainly can replace a healer if you wanted to steer clear of the stereo-type Monk builds. And to top it off it is somewhat flexible so you can easily substitute in hex removal or condition removal etc. I will post the build when I get home.

In normal mode now that they toned down the area affects and made the enraging a littel more managable in many areas you can do each area with different sorts of teams. City can be done with Paragon, kinda PvP team. It also can be done with a Famine team very easily. Veil can be trapped, and Foundary can be done again with a Famine team. To me it not about another team being able to do it, its about efficiency. I do not want to spend 5-7 hours doing a level and show it can be done. For example a trapping team generally takes a lot of time to clear Veil, can be done with some experience echo trappers, but just takes a while. To me having a effecient team that can do it fast is what its all about. Folks that know there roles and have the appropriate skills, weapons and modifications that are synergistic for the team. I have done 600 Famine team a number of times with a set of Echo Rangers and can do Foundry in less then 2 hours whiping everthing out. I think the Ursan probably can do it even less time. The other issue is having a team that can do all areas. One team may be good for one area and very poor for another. For example an Echo Trapper team can do Veil, but not Gloom or City. Mesmers can and use to rule in DOA, and with the right build can work well in many of the traditional teams. Not sure what you mean by Gimick, because the only thing I see as a gimick is Ursan. Everything else depends on synergy between the classes with clear roles and responsibilities. The Trinity for those that are not sure what is meant by this is three role team. 1. Tank - Survive and Hold Aggro Focus. 2. Damage Dealers 3. Healers/Protectors. In many cases the tank can be a Paragon, Ele, Warrier, and Dervish easily. The damage dealers can be Eles, Necros, Mesmers, Rits. And the Healer/Protectors can be Monks, Rits, and possibly even Paragons. Foundry and Gloom will pose the biggest challenge for many team builds. So for me its about being efficient, comprehensive (able to do all quests), with complentary and team synergy.

Their monks rely on HB (enchanment), if we have healers that do not rely on enchantments (i.e. P & Rit), would Nature's Renewal come in handy? How about Practiced stance and choking gas? My thought is that the interrupts last for some time, do a little extra damage, and does not have to be cast often, lessening the chance for interrupts. If you do not want to give up an elite to Practiced Stance, Dwarven Stability would allow choking gas to be up MOST of the time. A ranger with Barrage might be able to use Hex Breaker Aria at near spam levels. This does assume that the baddies are bunched, which implies either a tank or minions are containing aggro. I do not know where everyone's ranks will be, but the combination of Ether Nightmare (I get 6 degen) and Cry of Pain ( I get 100 AoE armor ignoring - echo chain anyone?) seems like a decent combination. Ether nightmare has a long warmup all ready, and Nature's renewal may make it unusable. Ebon Dust Aura would help keep the melee types subdued, and would allow the Paragon's to make near constant use of Spear of Fury (which 2...5 Adrenaline, at 0 Spear Mastery). If they have no condition removal, blinding would sure be handy. Great Dwarf Weapon and Earthbind might be usful, if there is room somewhere. We could try an Escape tank -- Escape --> Whirling --> Lightening Reflexes if there is a way to deal with wild throw. As it seems that enchantments, interrupts and energy denial are the foes in this area, it seems that adrenaline, weapon spells and shouts would be handy. With that in mind, Mark of Fury or Dark Fury would help to fuel the adrenaline based skills. A "battery" paragon could provide some energy to the other casters. Of course, an N BiP could do it better, but there are other options. Sheep - can you give us your definition of "Tank," for the record? Do you mean bonded to all getout kinda thing, or simple front liners that tend to block the baddies? Gerg - I would imagine that this team, in the end, will not be the most efficient way to clear an area of DoA. That is not to say that it can not be. Part of the fun, the "something a little different," is what attracts me to this kind of excercise. SOmething to keep in mind is that the first DoA teams, and the DoA teams first in the "new" DoA had to undertake an excercise just like this to find that most efficient method. Who is to say that they found the untimate answer? You once posted that there were millions of possible skill bars available to any one toon, it is unlikely that anyone has explored all of those bars, let alone all of the possible team builds (not that I intend to either, just pointing out that there just might be a better moustrap).

One thing that's been impressed upon me from having done runs as both the Triad method, and the UB way is that the more 'front liners' you have, the easier all the aggro control is. Though if we do have someone run out and take the heat, perhaps having them hold Defiant was Xinrae would be in order.

How about Sympathetic and/or Ancestor's Visage. I seem to be heading mesmer heavy at this point, and it seems there might be enough defense to fight the first group forever. This is where I tend to fall apart, as I am not sure I recognize the tree, for all of the forest. What is core, or key here? what does everything center around?

HB is no longer a maintained enchant and it's cast time is already low. Nature's Renewal helps a lot against the hexes, but will make it difficult for us to be hex heavy too. I have also been leaning towards adrenaline, shouts and weapon spells. An easy way to get adrenaline is to put up Infuriating Heat. It does take up an elite spot though. Vocal minority will mess up the shouting ability, but heavy hex removal (eg. Convert Hexes) will help with that. I like some of the skills suggested. Some of those PvE skills will come in handy even at the lower ranks. Mesmer heavy will work too. I was thinking maybe put those skills on a Necro to get the benefit from SR as well. Blindness is great in neutralising warriors, rangers and paragons. The dervish will take a little different tactic, but should be ok as well. One of the things we should probably consider is spiking rather than AoE damage, just to prevent enraging too many at once. Sheep - can you give us your definition of "Tank," for the record? I was ranting against the fully bonded tank that becomes the keystone of the party, which requires everything to be deployed for the Tank's benefit. That's putting all your eggs in one basket. It's high risk, and it pays off great when done right. But I'd like a team that's more resilient and more flexible. One that can crash against the enemy like a wave and come out on top. (Please forgive the imagery. Been in artsy mode this whole week :P)